I've never seen Win 8 in action, but I do think that MS has "balls". They've the guts to try something new and I respect that, even if it turns out less than nice for many people.

-Especially since MS does not have any

Edit: Or brains either for that matter Lol

I believe that Microsoft became extremely jealous of Apple's business model and the massive revenue that it generates. Simple as that. They wanted their own app store, and their own iPad (the Surface), and a similar way of forcing people to buy stuff. 

I use Windows 8, I also have an iPad, iPhone, and iMac. The thing is, I accept Apple's business model, because it has always been the same from day one. But I resent Microsoft trying to force me into their new way of working, because, let's face it, I have rarely had to pay for software (or "Apps"if you prefer) for as long as I've had a computer. 

Microsoft have made a LOT of money in the past, and I think they just wanted to get back to their glory days by changing the business model. Unfortunately, I think they just did it too late, when their customers are used to having so much freedom and choice with their computers.

It's just about the money....... It's always about the money.

What Bryan said....

I don't see what an app store has to do with a radical change in interface design...

Both are indicative of a change of 'direction' with MS....they now want to follow Apple...instead of leading [through popularity].

Your task now is to take several years off and personally invest in a history of OS and GUI involvement/development [education].....just so you 'do see'.

Cynics even regard the '8.1' terminology adoption as a direct imitation of the Mac OS....and as I've said before....MS can name theirs after canines....not felines....in which case 8.1 can be 'Mongrel'....

It's all going to go down the drain anyway when your PC is nothing but a dumb terminal that displays color. Cloud OS and Apps are within the near future and THAT will be the mother of all suck.

I don't think you are going to see the old start menu (as you know it) on the next version of Windows though. I suspect it will be a hybrid of modern ui and traditional start menu. Time will tell. 

I'm in the minority as one of those that see / have no issue at all with the new start menu. I can navigate it, add to it, and launch my programs from it faster than the old one. I can't customize it though without jumping hoops. 

I do see the money aspect of Start8. Congratz to Stardock for capitalizing on that one. Face it, it was needed if you wanted to keep Windowblinds alive. It wasn't needed to make the OS usable.

 ModernMix is a different story as it adds a much needed function that was left out.

True....though curiously more of 'Joe Public' would think the converse....the 'apparent' lack of a 'start button' bottom-left would simply have led to a rash of terminal head-scratching...

When I read your comments, it sounds like MS will turn your own PC into some kind of XBOX or an apple iPad, with in-built limitations.

But that would be the end of the digital world as we know it. It's hard for me to believe that. Isn't that just some kind of conspiracy-theory?

If MS would really do that, PC owners will turn to Linux-based systems.

They can try ...but eventually potential loss of market dominance will be a real wake-up call .... long before the great unwashed have to go out and buy propeller hats....

All this opinion swapping because HP took a backward step with its OEMs

Wish there was a "shaking my head" - "really, not this shit again" smiley to convey.. um.... exactly that.

I've just come back from ntcompatible.com because I was looking for an artice I believe I read there regarding 2013-14 HP machines that were duds regarding power, perfomance and reliability... and yes, it was a hardware based issue... NOT OS related.   However, some bright spark at HP found that Win 7 ran better on these machines than Win 8.... hence the topic of the OP

Thing is, I couldn't find the article again and now I can't be bothered as it is 01.20am and I'm too tired to care.

what do any of you think about steams new box pc thing coming out later this year?

Guys, it's all relative.

I think 8 is fine. But I'm a guy with 6 monitors, and lots of ram. I see performance improvements, sure. Lots, MOF.

But, IF you run 5/6 monitors, who cares if an app is full screen? You still have 4 more free. Multitasking is easy.

Ugly as it is, the start page isn't so bad, IF you have 5 other monitors to use for other things.

I like 8.1 ok. I don't get on here and preach it because I totally realize that it's not for everyone.

I always did like tinkering with the new. And exploring new ways/things. I am a curious redneck.

I have decided to go all 8. But here, on the main rig, I will "Stardockize".

My other two rigs will be left at default.

One thing I don't understand. How did my Windows 8.1 rig sync with my iPad?

I opened the iPad today, after a week or so of non use, and I see that Safari has synced with IE and all my favorites have synced. Didn't see that coming.

Oh, and as far as booting in 10 seconds, that does require not only a UEFI bios, but also a UEFI OS. Something that is an OEM thing, although, I did find some stuff on the web about making your own UEFI install with an 8 iso.

And it's still a hybrid fast boot, not a cold boot from a full shutdown.