Jafo, I've seen plenty of articles and info stating pretty much what I said concerning the tablet and 7 scenario. just like you've seen plenty that points to your view. I think there is a halfway point in there somewhere that is the actual truth between our views. I'll stand on my ground that 8 is NOT a "dud" and it's people that just refuse to give it a solid workout and have to rely on their crutches to walk with it that give it the bad reviews.

From a customization standpoint, it falls short. From an operation standpoint, it out performs anything prior to it.

I'm going to have to disagree. On my system 8 is really slow compared to 7. For example simply asking 8 to open IE takes forever when it opens in seconds on 7.

Performance is much better but......  I don't care how fast it goes or how great the mileage is......A butt ugly car that has no doors,( climb in the windows, NASCAR style) or in other words, is hard to access, has a  totally unfamiliar control scheme and a choice of flat, boring colors won't sell and while MS can afford to make an OS that won't sell, (not the first time, wont be the last) the big players in the PC market can't afford to gamble stockholder money on it hoping it will "catch on" or everyone will realize we don't know what we want and need to be told. HP just woke up first.

Sure, what I've seen of Win 8.1 is a solid performer, but it isn't what the buying public wants. People are voting with their wallets. Capitalism at its best.

I have to side with Phoon on this one. I have been using 8 and now 8.1 and for the most part see only improvements. As far as it is being ugly well yes it is if you don't customize it.

Probably going to ruffle a few feathers but I wonder what age has to do with it for those that don't like it. From what I have seen it is often those up in years that simply do not like change. My father went from xp to windows 7 and hated it so much he got mad one day and launched the tower into outer space.

I don't like Windows 8. I'm only 38 years old. Been using Windows since version 3.11.

Yes but you are one person too. I am talking about majority which I believe (though I have no statistics to back it up), that most would be older then 38.

I was 38 before windows 95 existed...and have used EVERY MS OS since Dos 4 [and later messed with older things from the first windows and Dos] as a standard/primary OS.

The only one that didn't  exist [for me] as a daily user was Vista....as it was released too early for its own good...and did not have drivers available for my DSL Modem connectivity...so it remained dead in the water until 7.

I have no issues changing OS GUIs .... being one of [not all that many] those here that used alternative shells as an every-day standard....and there have been many of those, not 'just' Litestep.

There's one called Calmira.... gives you a GUI from [eg] XP to re-shell your Windows 3.11.

There are 3rd party Dos GUIs [shells] I used to use...eg. Gorin.

I do not have an issue at all with DIFFERENT interfaces.....as long as they have actual inherent practicality.

8 does not.

Its kernel is better than 7's ....but its shell belongs on an idiot mobile phone, not without third party help [which it shouldn't need if MS had got it right in the first place].

I need to add....Win ME didn't stay long as an every-day OS.  It suffered from an over-zealous system-restore generator that invariably choked the harddrives of the time. [they weren't all that big].  It was 'amusing' watching the OS choke itself to death filling the drive....

 

8's on the Laptop .... saved by Stardock ..... and I am yet to do the Mac thing of adding OS point systems [8.1] as it's more appropriate to wait until MS quietly concedes defeat and makes an actual OS for a workstation [again]....

Jafo I agree that MS should get it right in the first place but we customize our gui's anyway. I just don't get complaining how it looks. The way my laptop is set up you would not know I was running windows 8.1 unless you checked system properties. What is the big deal with taking an OS that works better, but looks ugly and making it look good and even be more user friendly with the help of Stardock software. Like I said most if not all on this site will do it anyway on any system that can be customized.

Junior....it's not about the 'looks'....it's not about loading [or not] Windowblinds .... it's about Start 8 and ModernMix [in particular].

Having an 'ugly' OS is NOT the issue....they have [apart from 7, really] ALWAYS been ugly....which is why I'm a skinner...it's why we all became skinners [or use their products].

It's sheer common-sense functionality....and 8 is simply that perfect adage....a 'Jack of all trades and master of none.'

I don't own a pad... I don't own a Windows phone either... but MS wants me to standardize my interface?

Bit bloody presumptuous!

Maybe I am misunderstanding you Jafo. I can only speak for myself but I have no problem using 3rd party software to make it look good and even ad functionality. Like I said you would be hard pressed to know I was running Windows 8.1. It looks and acts just like my windows 7 system. It is no harder to use then Windows 7. Truthfully I see no benefits of nuking 8.1 and going back to 7 or xp or whatever. Out of the box yes but spending an hour of installs and tweaks is worth it to me, it might not be to you but that is alright too.

Yep...

I have no issue modifying MY 8 to work correctly....but I do have an issue with MS thinking they got it right....only to see real evidence they did not.

I am conversely quite happy they showed themselves to be so arrogant and stupid at the same time...because it meant that Stardock saw a tidy income correcting their idiocy.

An OS should not NEED outside help to make it acceptable to its purchasers... not if the Vendor actually correctly/fully understood its customers' needs/expectations.

The simple reality is....HAD they not tried to push a phone interface upon its desktop users then Phoon could rightly/justifiably argue the drop in sales of 8 was simply a product of coming along after a good OS [7] combined with flagging [maybe] sales of Desktop computers in favor of pads...[or economic times].

 

Now we can all sit back and observe how cleverly MS conceals its back-flip in the chase for lost revenue.

You can lay odds on no-one stepping up to the gallows to say 'mea culpa' ....

= "My mistake" -for all those who didn´t know what it meant

-As Jafo said MS is trying to rectify their mistake without admitting wrongdoing on their part, question is how far they are willing to go...

\m/ \m/